英国卫报:维基解密创始人朱利安.阿桑奇记者会问答
(博讯北京时间2010年12月04日 首发 - 支持此文作者/记者)
中文翻译:
Fwoggie问: (博讯 boxun.com)
你拥有澳大利亚护照,你想回澳大利亚吗?由于你公布了关于澳大利亚的电报,有可能刚下飞机即被逮捕.
朱利安.阿桑奇答:
作为澳大利亚公民,我非常想念我的祖国.然而,在过去几周内,澳大利亚总理茱莉亚.吉拉德(Julia Gillard)和司法部长罗伯特.麦克莱兰德(Robert McClelland)明确表示,不仅不可能允许我回国,还将积极协助美国政府,攻击我和我的战友.这对一名澳大利亚公民意味着什么?事实不正明摆着吗.我们是不是要像大卫.希克斯(David Hicks)那样,被美国政府长期羁押,以便澳大利亚的政客和外交官员可以受美国邀请,出席美国大使馆的鸡尾酒会呢?
girish89问:
你认为自己对世界造成了何种影响?如果你给所有支持者打电话,提供保密文件的人难道不应得到你的一句赞扬吗?
朱利安.阿桑格答:
过去四年间,我们的目标之一就是感谢那些提供机密信息的人.在几乎每一次泄密中,他们都承担着实际风险;没有他们的努力,记者将一事无成.如果事实如五角大楼所述,年轻的美军士兵——布拉德利.曼宁(Bradley Manning)是最近几次泄密的资料来源,那么毫无疑问,他是一位举世无双的英雄.
Daithi问:
你是否曾经或计划公布带有阿富汗线人姓名的保密文件?你是否会审查这些资料中的人名,以确保没人会因此遭到报复?
朱利安.阿桑奇答:
维基解密已有四年的历史.在此期间,即使是五角大楼等政府机构也未能可靠断言,曾有人因为我们的活动受到伤害,哪怕是一个人.虽然有人竭力抹黑,试图误导民众得出与事实相反的结论,但就这一点而言,我们认为不会有任何改变.
distrot问:
美国国务院正在研究你是否算得上一名记者.你是一个记者吗?你披露了某些人不愿意公开的许多信息;就此而言,你是不是一名"记者"重要吗?
朱利安.阿桑奇答:
25岁时,我与他人合著了第一本纪实文学.从那时起,我一直拍摄纪录片,并向报纸,电视和互联网提供纪实内容.但是,无需争论我是不是一名记者,或当人们开始为维基解密写作时,他们莫名其妙地被宣布不再是记者.尽管我仍在写作,进行研究和调查,但我的主要职责是一名出版商和主编,组织和指导其他记者.
achanth问:
你是否收到过有关UFO或外星人的保密文件?
朱利安.阿桑奇答:
许多人给我们发来古怪的电子邮件,内容与UFO有关,或是宣称自己是敌基督(恶魔).但是,这些材料未能满足我们的两大发布原则:
1)文件不能是自己凭空创作的.
2)必须是原始文件.
但值得一提的是,一些尚未发布的保密文件确实提到了UFO.
gnosticheresy问:
那些在此次"大规模泄密"前发布的保密文件呢?维基解密会在某个时候将它们重新上线吗?
朱利安.阿桑奇答:
用户仍可从mirror.wikileaks.info获得这些资料的很大一部分;其余部分将在我们解决了技术问题后立即提供.从今年4月起,我们就无法按照自己的时间表行事,一切工作都以美国政府对我们的攻讦为中心.但是,公众并不能轻松获取或搜索我花费三年半时间所取得的成果,这令我很不高兴.
CrisShutlar问:
你是否曾料到这些文件对世界的影响如此巨大?你担心自己的安全吗?
朱利安.阿桑奇答:
我一直相信,维基解密会对世界产生影响;早在2007年时,它改变了肯尼亚大选的结果,因此从某种程度上说,它已经做到了这一点.我原以为,维基解密让别人意识到它的重要作用,只需要两年时间,实际上却花了4年;所以我们仍略微滞后,而且还有很多工作要做.我们曾受到死亡威胁,这是公开记录在案的;但我们已经采取了预防措施,能够与超级大国周旋.
JAnthony问:
我是英国的一名前外交官.任职期间,我曾负责协调针对巴尔干地区的一个野蛮政权的多变行动,对某个威胁发动种族清洗的叛乱国家实施制裁,并为一个贫穷国家争取债务减免计划.如果外交通讯得不到英国及其他许多自由民主国家的法律保护,其安全和机密性受不到保护,这些工作将无法开展.如果大使馆无法安全地将建议和消息发回伦敦,那么它就无法运行.
没有保密和对消息来源的保护,外交工作无法进行.这不仅适用于美国,也适用于英国和联合国.在公布大量保密信函的过程中,维基解密不仅特别强调某些错误行为,更破坏了外交的整个流程.如果你们能够披露美国的机密文件,自然也能将英国的电报,联合国的电子邮件公之于众.
我的问题是:当下一次国际危机发生时,如果由于外交系统停转,问题无法解决,你个人是否应当为之承担责任?
朱利安.阿桑奇答:
如果你能将这封长信精简至一个问题,我会很乐意回答.
cargun问:
在公布的机密文件中,一些关键人名未作修改,一些则用"XXXXX"代替,还有一些只显示了一部分.除了美国政府,还有谁能做出关键决策呢?我们知道,你曾要求美国国务院就这些人名提供协助,但遭到拒绝.你能解释一下这些文件中的人名审查吗?此外,机密文件是否按某种顺序公布?抑或只是随机选择?
朱利安.阿桑奇答:
我们发布的文件与主流媒体的新闻报道类似.记者在详细调查后写作和编辑新闻稿;随后,至少一名记者或编辑会对它进行审核.我们会对其他机构提供的材料进行审阅,以确保这一流程发挥作用.
rszopa问:
前不久,维基解密遭遇DDoS(分布式拒绝服务)攻击,亚马逊也宣布不再为它提供主机服务.有人认为,这两起事件是为了提高维基解密的知名度.你同意这种观点吗?你是否有意为之?感谢你的工作.
朱利安.阿桑奇答:
从2007年起,我们就开始有目的地将部分服务器迁移至其他地区,以应对言论自由受到侵犯的风险.亚马逊是其中之一案例.
abbeherrera问:
你的工作没人能阻止.这是新世界的开始.记住,很多人在你的背后支持着你,你不是孤单地战斗.
你公布的保密文件有没有涉及《反仿冒贸易协定》(以下简称ACTA)?
朱利安.阿桑奇答:
是的,有此类文件.该协定从制定之初,就是为了满足美国版权和专利产业巨头的利益.事实上,是维基解密让ACTA首次受到公众关注.
people1st问:
加拿大总理的(前)高级顾问汤姆.弗拉纳根(Tom Flanagan)最近表示:"我认为阿桑奇应该被暗杀...奥巴马应当下达命令...如果阿桑奇失踪了,我不会感到不高兴的."你对这些作何感想?
朱利安.阿桑奇答:
以严肃态度发表这些言论的弗拉纳根先生及其他人士应当受到检控,罪名是煽动谋杀.
Isopod问:
你为什么认为有必要"让维基解密面对公众"?身份保密不是更好吗?
如今,这场辩论已经非常个人化了,只针对你一个人:"朱利安.阿桑奇公布保密文件","朱利安.阿桑奇是恐怖分子","据称朱利安.阿桑奇强奸妇女","朱利安.阿桑奇应当被暗杀","朱利安.阿桑奇问答",等等等等.已经没有人把维基解密看作一个机构.甚至有许多人不知道维基解密还有其他工作人员.
我认为,这将使维基解密变得脆弱,因为你的对手可以进行人身攻击.如果他们让公众相信,你是一个罪恶的,强奸妇女的恐怖分子,维基解密将声誉扫地.此外,维基解密其他勇敢而勤奋的工作人员,也应和你一样得到赞誉.
朱利安.阿桑奇答:
这是一个有趣的问题.最初,我尽力防止维基解密为人所知,因为我不希望个人在我们的活动中扮演任何角色.这与法国的一个数学家秘密会社十分相似,他们共用笔名"布尔巴基"(The Bourbaki).然而,这种做法很快使人们对我们的身份极为好奇,还有一些人自封为维基解密的代表.然而最后必须要有人对公众负责,组织的领袖只有勇敢面对公众,才有资格要求消息来源承担更大风险.我就像一根避雷针.我生活的各个方面都遭到了大量攻击,但也收获了极大信任.
tburgi问:
西方政府一直宣扬新闻自由受法律保护,并以此获得道德权威.但对你和维基解密的法律制裁将会削弱这种论调.你是否同意,西方政府攻击维基解密将使他们丧失道德权威?你相信西方政府拥有任何道德权威吗?
朱利安.阿桑奇答:
西方政府已经通过合同,贷款,控股,银行等工具,将基本权力关系财务化了.在这样的环境下,言论很容易 "自由",因为政治的任何变化很少导致这些基本工具的改变.在西方社会,言论几乎不会对权力造成任何影响.
然而在像中国这样的国家,言论审查是普遍的,因为言论是很有力量的,独裁政党害怕言论自由.我们应该把"言论审查制度"视为一种信号,他揭示了言论对在个国家的力量.
美国对我们的攻击令人充满希望,这表明言论已经具备了足够的力量,能够打破财务工具形成的枷锁.
rajiv1857问:
这场比赛你们能赢吗?技术上,你能否一直与这些国家玩捉迷藏?网络服务提供商总是被政府直接或间接控制.
如果维基解密网站被亚马逊之类的主机服务提供商"踢走",技术上,你对这些保密文件有何备份?你们是否拥有第二手准备?你们公布的保密材料已经广泛散播,这是否意味着停止服务并不等于比赛的结束?
朱利安.阿桑奇答:
电报已经广泛传播,已经有10万人获得了加密格式的文件.如果我们遭遇不测,这些文件的关键部分将自动公开.此外,多家新闻机构也获得了这些资料.历史将会胜利.世界将变得更加美好?我们能否幸存?这取决于你们.
原文:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2010/dec/03/julian-assange-wikileaks
Julian Assange answers your questions
The founder of WikiLeaks, Julian Assange, answers readers' questions about the release of more than 250,000 US diplomatic cables
ulian Assange, WikiLeaks founder. Photograph: Carmen Valino for the Guardian
Fwoggie
I'll start the ball rolling with a question. You're an Australian passport holder - would you want return to your own country or is this now out of the question due to potentially being arrested on arrival for releasing cables relating to Australian diplomats and polices?
Julian Assange:
I am an Australian citizen and I miss my country a great deal. However, during the last weeks the Australian prime minister, Julia Gillard, and the attorney general, Robert McClelland, have made it clear that not only is my return is impossible but that they are actively working to assist the United States government in its attacks on myself and our people. This brings into question what does it mean to be an Australian citizen - does that mean anything at all? Or are we all to be treated like David Hicks at the first possible opportunity merely so that Australian politicians and diplomats can be invited to the best US embassy cocktail parties.
girish89
How do you think you have changed world affairs?
And if you call all the attention you've been given-credit ... shouldn't the mole or source receive a word of praise from you?
Julian Assange:
For the past four years one of our goals has been to lionise the source who take the real risks in nearly every journalistic disclosure and without whose efforts, journalists would be nothing. If indeed it is the case, as alleged by the Pentagon, that the young soldier - Bradley Manning - is behind some of our recent disclosures, then he is without doubt an unparalleled hero.
Daithi
Have you released, or will you release, cables (either in the last few days or with the Afghan and Iraq war logs) with the names of Afghan informants or anything else like so?
Are you willing to censor (sorry for using the term) any names that you feel might land people in danger from reprisals??
By the way, I think history will absolve you. Well done!!!
Julian Assange:
WikiLeaks has a four-year publishing history. During that time there has been no credible allegation, even by organisations like the Pentagon that even a single person has come to harm as a result of our activities. This is despite much-attempted manipulation and spin trying to lead people to a counter-factual conclusion. We do not expect any change in this regard.
distrot
The State Dept is mulling over the issue of whether you are a journalist or not. Are you a journalist? As far as delivering information that someone [anyone] does not want seen is concerned, does it matter if you are a 'journalist' or not?
Julian Assange:
I coauthored my first nonfiction book by the time I was 25. I have been involved in nonfiction documentaries, newspapers, TV and internet since that time. However, it is not necessary to debate whether I am a journalist, or how our people mysteriously are alleged to cease to be journalists when they start writing for our organisaiton. Although I still write, research and investigate my role is primarily that of a publisher and editor-in-chief who organises and directs other journalists.
achanth
Mr Assange,
have there ever been documents forwarded to you which deal with the topic of UFOs or extraterrestrials?
Julian Assange:
Many weirdos email us about UFOs or how they discovered that they were the anti-christ whilst talking with their ex-wife at a garden party over a pot-plant. However, as yet they have not satisfied two of our publishing rules.
1) that the documents not be self-authored;
2) that they be original.
However, it is worth noting that in yet-to-be-published parts of the cablegate archive there are indeed references to UFOs.
gnosticheresy
What happened to all the other documents that were on Wikileaks prior to these series of "megaleaks"? Will you put them back online at some stage ("technical difficulties" permitting)?
Julian Assange:
Many of these are still available at mirror.wikileaks.info and the rest will be returning as soon as we can find a moment to do address the engineering complexities. Since April of this year our timetable has not been our own, rather it has been one that has centred on the moves of abusive elements of the United States government against us. But rest assured I am deeply unhappy that the three-and-a-half years of my work and others is not easily available or searchable by the general public.
CrisShutlar
Have you expected this level of impact all over the world? Do you fear for your security?
Julian Assange:
I always believed that WikiLeaks as a concept would perform a global role and to some degree it was clear that is was doing that as far back as 2007 when it changed the result of the Kenyan general election. I thought it would take two years instead of four to be recognised by others as having this important role, so we are still a little behind schedule and have much more work to do. The threats against our lives are a matter of public record, however, we are taking the appropriate precautions to the degree that we are able when dealing with a super power.
JAnthony
Julian.
I am a former British diplomat. In the course of my former duties I helped to coordinate multilateral action against a brutal regime in the Balkans, impose sanctions on a renegade state threatening ethnic cleansing, and negotiate a debt relief programme for an impoverished nation. None of this would have been possible without the security and secrecy of diplomatic correspondence, and the protection of that correspondence from publication under the laws of the UK and many other liberal and democratic states. An embassy which cannot securely offer advice or pass messages back to London is an embassy which cannot operate. Diplomacy cannot operate without discretion and the
protection of sources. This applies to the UK and the UN as much as the US.
In publishing this massive volume of correspondence, Wikileaks is not highlighting specific cases of wrongdoing but undermining the entire process of diplomacy. If you can publish US cables then you can publish UK telegrams and UN emails.
My question to you is: why should we not hold you personally responsible when next an international crisis goes unresolved because diplomats cannot function.
Julian Assange:
If you trim the vast editorial letter to the singular question actually asked, I would be happy to give it my attention.
cargun
Mr Assange,
Can you explain the censorship of identities as XXXXX's in the revealed cables? Some critical identities are left as is, whereas some are XXXXX'd. Some cables are partially revealed. Who can make such critical decisons, but the US gov't? As far as we know your request for such help was rejected by the State department. Also is there an order in the release of cable or are they randomly selected?
Thank you.
Julian Assange:
The cables we have release correspond to stories released by our main stream media partners and ourselves. They have been redacted by the journalists working on the stories, as these people must know the material well in order to write about it. The redactions are then reviewed by at least one other journalist or editor, and we review samples supplied by the other organisations to make sure the process is working.
rszopa
Annoying as it may be, the DDoS seems to be good publicity (if anything, it adds to your credibility). So is getting kicked out of AWS. Do you agree with this statement? Were you planning for it?
Thank you for doing what you are doing.
Julian Assange:
Since 2007 we have been deliberately placing some of our servers in jurisdictions that we suspected suffered a free speech deficit inorder to separate rhetoric from reality. Amazon was one of these cases.
abbeherrera
You started something that nobody can stop. The Beginning of a New World. Remember, that community is behind you and support you (from Slovakia).
Do you have leaks on ACTA?
Julian Assange:
Yes, we have leaks on the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement, a trojan horse trade agreement designed from the very beginning to satisfy big players in the US copyright and patent industries. In fact, it was WikiLeaks that first drew ACTA to the public's attention - with a leak.
people1st
Tom Flanagan, a [former] senior adviser to Canadian Prime Minister recently stated "I think Assange should be assassinated ... I think Obama should put out a contract ... I wouldn't feel unhappy if Assange does disappear."
How do you feel about this?
Julian Assange:
It is correct that Mr. Flanagan and the others seriously making these statements should be charged with incitement to commit murder.
Isopod
Julian, why do you think it was necessary to "give Wikileaks a face"? Don't you think it would be better if the organization was anonymous?
This whole debate has become very personal and reduced on you - "Julian Assange leaked documents", "Julian Assange is a terrorist", "Julian Assange alledgedly raped a woman", "Julian Assange should be assassinated", "Live Q&A qith Julian Assange" etc. Nobody talks about Wikileaks as an organization anymore. Many people don't even realize that there are other people behind Wikileaks, too.
And this, in my opinion, makes Wikileaks vulnerable because this enables your opponents to argue ad hominem. If they convince the public that you're an evil, woman-raping terrorist, then Wikileaks' credibility will be gone. Also, with due respect for all that you've done, I think it's unfair to all the other brave, hard working people behind Wikileaks, that you get so much credit.
Julian Assange:
This is an interesting question. I originally tried hard for the organisation to have no face, because I wanted egos to play no part in our activities. This followed the tradition of the French anonymous pure mathematians, who wrote under the collective allonym, "The Bourbaki". However this quickly led to tremendous distracting curiosity about who and random individuals claiming to represent us. In the end, someone must be responsible to the public and only a leadership that is willing to be publicly courageous can genuinely suggest that sources take risks for the greater good. In that process, I have become the lightening rod. I get undue attacks on every aspect of my life, but then I also get undue credit as some kind of balancing force.
tburgi
Western governments lay claim to moral authority in part from having legal guarantees for a free press.
Threats of legal sanction against Wikileaks and yourself seem to weaken this claim.
(What press needs to be protected except that which is unpopular to the State? If being state-sanctioned is the test for being a media organization, and therefore able to claim rights to press freedom, the situation appears to be the same in authoritarian regimes and the west.)
Do you agree that western governments risk losing moral authority by
attacking Wikileaks?
Do you believe western goverments have any moral authority to begin with?
Thanks,
Tim Burgi
Vancouver, Canada
Julian Assange:
The west has fiscalised its basic power relationships through a web of contracts, loans, shareholdings, bank holdings and so on. In such an environment it is easy for speech to be "free" because a change in political will rarely leads to any change in these basic instruments. Western speech, as something that rarely has any effect on power, is, like badgers and birds, free. In states like China, there is pervasive censorship, because speech still has power and power is scared of it. We should always look at censorship as an economic signal that reveals the potential power of speech in that jurisdiction. The attacks against us by the US point to a great hope, speech powerful enough to break the fiscal blockade.
rajiv1857
Hi,
Is the game that you are caught up in winnable? Technically, can you keep playing hide and seek with the powers that be when services and service providers are directly or indirectly under government control or vulnerable to pressure - like Amazon?
Also, if you get "taken out" - and that could be technical, not necessarily physical - what are the alternatives for your cache of material?
Is there a 'second line' of activists in place that would continue the campaign?
Is your material 'dispersed' so that taking out one cache would not necessarily mean the end of the game?
Julian Assange:
The Cable Gate archive has been spread, along with significant material from the US and other countries to over 100,000 people in encrypted form. If something happens to us, the key parts will be released automatically. Further, the Cable Gate archives is in the hands of multiple news organisations. History will win. The world will be elevated to a better place. Will we survive? That depends on you.
That's it every one, thanks for all your questions and comments. Julian Assange is sorry that he can't answer every question but he has tried to cover as much territory as possible. Thanks for your patience with our earlier technical difficulties.
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